MTF Reform [redo]

Discussion in 'Site feedback, suggestions, and discussions' started by Appman, Jun 18, 2010.

  1. Appman

    Appman Community Development Staff Member

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    MultiTouchFans REFORM

    NOTE: I am not writng this to become a mod or anything of the sort. DO
    NOT USE THIS THREAD TO FLAME OR TROLL. I am not flaming or trolling
    either and please, don't ban me for this. I
    am writing this because this is what I and other users see
    about iPTF that needs changing. I was able to form a group with many
    users from this forum who share the same ideas as I do, and hopefully
    they will post aswell.

    We say iPTF is a community, but does it really feel that way? We just
    went through this "big" thing in which we saw that iPTF needed changes
    and we need to become more of a "community", but what did we get out
    of it? What really changed? A few new moderators? (I have nothing
    against the mods) Maybe a name change? Yeah, that was one step, but we
    need to keep taking more. I honestly don't feel like we have become
    more of a community after that ordeal a while ago. We all got together
    and gave our input
    during that fake April fools war, and we can't slack off now that
    there isn't a "war" going on. I have not seen much change at all and
    I know most of us see areas that need improvement.

    Point #1
    Many members are leaving or considering leaving. That shouldn't be!
    iPTF shouldn't bore people, and I'm not saying that people don't lose
    excitement and want to move on, but seriously let's keep our members
    for as long as possible.
    Many members join and ask ONE question, and then we never hear from
    them again. We need to know what brought them here in the first place,
    one obvious reason is that they know we have answers, but what keeps
    them from ever coming on again? We need to keep the new members aswell.

    Point #2
    Another thing is that should be brought up is infractions/warnings.
    This has gotten MUCH better but still many people are recieving
    unneccesary or overly strict warnings and infractions. I know warnings
    and infractions are given by the discretion of the moderator or
    administrator, but can't they be a little more fair? Some ban reasons
    are absolutely ridiculous. I know many people who want to post things
    that are within the rules but they are afraid of getting banned. This
    should not be.

    Point #3
    Another big thing is the front page, no one posts there anymore
    besides _JKK_, not even the people who are labeled "FP Reporters".
    Kiks did the Rewind section which was awesome, but where is it now?
    We need to work on making the FP less boring, because that is
    generally the first page people see when the get on iPTF. We need to
    get something started on the front page and maintain it.

    EDIT: I see that recently (today) the FP is getting a little more
    active and new FP Reporters were established, hopefully this is able to be maintained and not dropped after
    a few weeks.

    Point #4
    Closing threads. Ok, we all know if a thread is stupid it should be
    closed. But what about those threads that make you laugh or have a
    sense of humor? Why are threads like that getting closed? Do we not
    want any fun here?
    I believe threads like that bring us closer as a community, until it
    gets closed of course. I mean that's what the OT is for, right?! This
    is probably a big reason people get bored and want to leave, we don't
    seem to
    allow any fun.
    (NOTE: "Fun" doesn't include trolling.)
    Even some threads that are normal get closed because of ONE person.
    Why not just delete the post and move on?

    Point #5
    The Moderator Emeritus system. I think the "Moderator Emeritus" system
    should be done away with. Fill those positions
    with active, "normal" Super moderators/Moderators. Which brings me to
    another point...


    Point #6
    iPTF staff positions. This site needs to get rid of letting inactive
    members (includes inactive in their duties as well.) keep their staff
    positions. For example, we have Moderators, specifically in the
    International Section, who are never active. Why can't those positions
    be filled with active members who will actually help. There is
    probably a lot of cleaning up in that section to do and there are
    ACTIVE members that are capable of doing it. We also have members of
    the MR Team who haven't made or had anything really to do with
    reviewing in several months. Another thing is FP Reporters, not even
    they post on the FP, there are a huge amount of people on this site
    who are capable of doing this.

    Point #7
    I think we should focus some more on the social things this site has.
    And yes, I know they are "unofficial" but these are ways we can talk
    to other users and establish some sort of bond other than just in the
    forum. The IRC and are the main, but unofficial, ways to talk
    to other users. I would love to see each become more active and more
    users getting to know each other to establish a better community.


    Now I have have given my thoughts and I hope I am not the only one who
    thinks about some of this points. So please, if you feel like you want
    to say something, do so. And let's make iPTF feel like a community.
    For real this time...


  2. _JKK_

    _JKK_ Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I am making this post independently of the staff (consider me to be a normal user for this). These are my opinions on the points you made.

    Point 1: That's right. The site is continually growing in members, but not in members that stay on. I think that this is tied into how new members are treated. We were all new once; think back to those days. If you were told 'Stupid n00b.' etc, would you have stayed on? No. That isn't just morally wrong, it's pathetic. Community. That has a meaning.

    Point 2: Once again, my opinion. I partially agree with this; but I do agree with the rules on this one. Most users who post as they would everyday will never have to worry about being banned. If the subject is in question, ask a moderator. I won't bite, and I don't believe my colleagues will, either. There are some things that have no place here (piracy being, usually, the biggest one). What I do agree with is some leniency. In other words, if you get an infraction, and you don't get another one for (say) three months, then the point is gone. That would make some sense.

    Point 3: Trust me, the frontpage is about to get a lot more interesting. I'm on summer, and I'm bored. I'll be pumping out some articles, and that isn't even counting the other staff and FP Reporters. Just you wait on this one.

    Point 4: Much of the time, threads that get closed are because of how OT they become. Yes, even in the OT, there is such thing as being to OT. You do that, you get your thread closed. Don't post retarded pictures, don't act stupid. It's fine to have fun. But some of you need to look up fun, and compare that with trolling.

    Point 5: Ok; I don't really see how this affects anything. But ok.

    Point 6: I agree with this. We do need moderators for the International section, most definitely. For the FP Reporters, like I said. This will change. And for the better; we intend to compete in the FP blog space. But we need all the help we can get, and from you guys. Get out there and comment! Re-tweet! Share on Facebook. It all helps promote this stuff. And the more attention we see, the more we can do. It's hard to get yourself to write things when you don't get anything out of it (hint: comments).

    Point 7: The historical problem with that is that, if it was official, then the staff would have to moderate it. You want to make the Palringo group official? The staff has to mod it, since it is directly affiliated with the site. Sure, it could be more social-focused (that would be great, IMHO), but I'm not sure how many of you guys would want that to happen.

    Some points of my own: iPTF (MTF) is a technology forum. We are based around the subject of iDevices. But anymore, that isn't what we talk about. When we aren't arguing among each other like idiots, we are spamming threads, insulting newer users for completely legitimate questions. Are you kidding me, people? You expect everything to be great when the majority of our posting is in the OT? New members don't come for the OT; they come to ask and learn. If they like the community (i.e. aren't insulted for asking questions), they will stay on, and post regularly in the OT and the forum. That is definitely a problem; if you want a social hour, there is a place for that. I'm not saying it is bad, but come on. Let's get back to the basics.

    I almost think that insulting newer users (for good questions, that others would like to know) should result in a ban. Not a perma-ban, but definitely a ban. Why the hell would you expect people to stick around if they get cussed out on their first post? The only reason I'm still here is because when I joined, it was helpful. A bonus was the community, the OT.

    Projects. The best project I've seen since Christmas was Appman's and Daconcerror's Zune HD theme. That was great; the teamwork and the support from the community. That proves that it can be done. But there should be more. You want new people? Attract them here. You write a review that is nice, you'll get it frontpaged. Trust me, that's easy, and it gets you some time in the spotlight.

    Also, if you reference a private joke (say, one that was made in the unofficial Palringo group) that seems to break the rules and get infracted/warned for it, don't come crying to the mods. If you respectfully explain it, and the moderator thinks that it is OK, then he will reverse it. That's it, end of story. That isn't a guarantee, it's a maybe. And trust me, cussing out the mod that did it won't help. For example, I was banned for a month a couple months back, because of someone hacking my account. I respectfully contacted BGizzle, and got it all sorted out. I didn't contact him saying, 'hey d-bag, unban me.' I said 'Hey, why am I banned? I'm not sure what I did,' and he got in touch with me and we figured it out.

    _____________________________

    The launch of the iPhone 4 and iOS4 gives us a once-a-year chance to grow. We'll gain great members, who have the potential to go on to really influence the community in great ways. That is, if we don't cuss them out first.

    Negativity=Negative members. That's who we'll get, if we can't get some of these things fixed.

    Positivity= Positive members. You pick.
  3. bgizzle

    bgizzle Administrator Staff Member

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    So I moved the stuff from the "reform" thread into a new thread that will, for now be closed while the staff prepare replies. I am VERY disappointed by the behavior of the members participating in the last thread, and the way they have been acting out over the last few days. Just as a life tip, acting out like that doesn't make people want to listen to you. (this, of course, is not in reference to Appman above, who wrote a long thoughtful post and specifically warned against flaming and jackassery).
  4. bgizzle

    bgizzle Administrator Staff Member

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    This is a technology information site, not a social network. I've been here for almost 3 years because I enjoy helping to run a site that helps people with their iPod problems. This is not a chat site, and although the OT is a fun and vibrant place, it is not something that should define the site. This is a philosophical choice. If you want to have a community with your buddies that you made on here, where anything goes, feel free to use any one of the MANY other available platforms for doing so.


    Infractions are cumulative, so a small thing might result in a permaban for someone that has acted out several times. Nothing I can do about that, since they were given many opportunities to learn from their mistakes. The warning system was designed to be very forgiving at first, letting most people that receive infractions (not warnings) come back after 24 hours and continue participating. If people are not capable of behaving appropriately on the site, they are not welcome here.

    Just brought on our first pro blogger a few days ago. This was a known issue and is already improving.


    Point taken on letting one person ruin it for everyone. However, see my reply to point 1.

    No.

    No, and see point 3, respectively.

    See my response to point 1 as well as JKK's response.
  5. bgizzle

    bgizzle Administrator Staff Member

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    Thread is now reopened for posting. Immature, OT, or inappropriate remarks will result in an instant permanent ban, regardless of previous infraction history.
  6. MangledFace

    MangledFace Banned

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    I agree with APPMAN with the thing he has say and I myself is a new member! i must say that nobody has cussed me and i am thanksful for that! thank you.

    Admin note: This was another account of a previously-banned user.
  7. Appman

    Appman Community Development Staff Member

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    @Point #7
    I had never meant to imply we should make them official. Couldn't we keep them unofficial but let users know more about them? For example, maybe giving the Palringo thread a sticky, like the IRC thread? Little things like that.

    I do have to agree with your comments on Point #1, it is a tech site, not something like Facebook. And how the OT is somewhat important but shouldn't define the site.
  8. daconcerror

    daconcerror Banned

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    I agree with everything the three of you have said but bgizzle you say that it's not a chat site but if there is no feeling of a community then everyone Noone will feel inclined to help and will instead reduce every thread to rubbish :/

    The main point that i feel is just the general dynamic of the community, nodoby has any respect for anyone...
  9. Jayden

    Jayden Active Member

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    Anyway how do you apply for FP Reporter?

    And some good points made. And most of all, I don't get why members leave? Why leave an awesome community that is made by an awesome person! BGizzle, I give you all the credit man!
  10. peebrian202869

    peebrian202869 Banned

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    I especially agree with bgizzle on the first point, this is not a social forum, its for questions & answers. If you meet people here then great! But that doesnt mean this is for the sole purpose of socialising.

    Appman's point 5, well... i dont really get that/understand that anyway.

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