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Is it bad for my battery to run on lower than 10%?

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by georgerussos, Feb 20, 2012.

  1. f41lurizer

    f41lurizer Well-Known Member

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    Read my original post, in which I linked a little article on battery care. I'm trying to find more like it...

    Also, you iPhone meters the battery based on your current activity.
  2. jpga13

    jpga13 Banned

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    Still not seeing anything.
  3. iphone4suser

    iphone4suser Member

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    same
  4. f41lurizer

    f41lurizer Well-Known Member

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    Yep everyone there's no official proof that you shouldn't take your battery to less than 20% (scientific proof), but people still say it's a good idea, so if it doesn't hurt you, why not just do it?
  5. georgerussos

    georgerussos Member

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    This is ridiculous! Now we've got to worry about the battery percentage, too!? Might as well get one of those bulky battery cases. Ugh this is so frustrating.
  6. terminator7256

    terminator7256 Member

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    There is proof. Lithium batteries are not capable of fully discharging and surviving.

    http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/lithium-ion-battery.htm

    More accurate site

    Note that iPhones are not fully discharged when they say there at 1 percent. They store more charge than that for safety. The battery has a circuit in it to protect it from being discharged properly and the iphone software is incapable of using its own battery's reserve charge
  7. iPwn

    iPwn Community Development Staff Member

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    It's a lithium battery... It's not affected by the same charge/discharge rules as old Ni-Cd batteries.

    With Li-ion batteries you can charge and use your phone however you like, but there is a limited number of charge cycles. As Apple themselves say:

    "A charge cycle means using all of the battery’s power, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a single charge. For instance, you could listen to your iPod for a few hours one day, using half its power, and then recharge it fully. If you did the same thing the next day, it would count as one charge cycle, not two, so you may take several days to complete a cycle. Each time you complete a charge cycle, it diminishes battery capacity slightly, but you can put notebook, iPod, and iPhone batteries through many charge cycles before they will only hold 80% of original battery capacity. "

    The only thing going under 20% would do is make you complete a charge cycle in a smaller number of charges. But even that's meaningless since you're bound to be using the device longer between charges if you run it that low. So fewer but longer charges in the same period of time as long, short charges is effectively the same.
  8. Rod

    Rod New Member

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    You are completely incorrect! This is a Lithium Polymer battery (LiPo) we are talking about!!! NOT a Nickel Cadmium (NiCd) . NEVER go below 20% on a LiPo - NEVER. Lithium Polymer since 2006-2007 is still the most powerful battery type but if you don't know what you are doing, you can damage and destroy them. (I have to use one of my hobbies as an example and how I learned so much more about LiPo) I have $40K in RC helicopters that use these batteries some of which in the beginning cost 400 dollars per battery. Now they are more reasonable at about $100 per battery ever since the market for this technology exploded. (and even less depending upon the size/performance/discharge rate)

    I guarantee you have to charge your battery often if you are saying you run it down that low. The battery will still work but the performance is not going to be there, not to mention it can become a fire hazard. This is the main reason we time our flights and our expensive transmitters (TX) have built-in count down timers so we know how long we can fly and when to land. What happens when you go below 20% ? It will start getting weaker and hold less of a charge, and if you keep doing it, the battery will swell (puff up). And when they are puffed up, is when they become a fire hazard. I keep trying to school my wife on Lithium Polymer technology and she's the one with the engineering degree! She also keeps thinking in terms of the old Ni-Cd batteries where it was good to drain them completely and that's what made them last. Nope, not Lithum Polymer. That is why in an iPhone it gives you that 20% warning. I made the mistake of letting my 4S go to 13% when I was busy... and now I have to charge mine every day opposed to every two or three days before I went down to 13%. In an RC heli, if you have a 6S 5000MaH 50C battery and you take it down to 20% it will almost be certain that that battery will be puffed up. And you may as well trash it! **(YES LiPo's are landfill safe unlike Ni-Cd/Ni-Mh.) This is the biggest mistake newbies to the RC airplane and heli hobby make. They boast online that they get 10-15 min flight times, but they don't realize they destroyed their battery! Ask any Pro sponsored RC heli pilot how long they fly for. (this is of course pulling off some of the most wicked 3D maneuvers) flight times are anywhere from 3 to 5 minutes. We take our batteries down to 40 to 60% before charging. Charging often will NOT hurt a LiPo. Take it from someone who has spent over 10K on LiPo batteries.

    **LAND FILL SAFE
    ** DISPOSAL OF LIPO BATTERIES **
    Unlike NiCd batteries, lithium-polymer batteries are environmentally friendly.
    For safety reasons, it’s best that LiPo cells be fully discharged before disposal (however,
    if physically damaged it is NOT recommended to discharge LiPo cells before disposal -
    see below for details). The batteries must also be cool before proceeding with disposal
    instructions. To dispose of LiPo cells and packs:
    1. If any LiPo cell in the pack has been physically damaged, resulting
    in a swollen cell or a split or tear in a cell’s foil covering, do NOT discharge the battery.
    Jump to step 5.
    2. Place the LiPo battery in a fireproof container or bucket of sand.
    3. Connect the battery to a LiPo discharger. Set the discharge cutoff
    voltage to the
    lowest possible value. Set the discharge current to a C/10 value, with “C” being the
    capacity rating of the pack. For example, the “1C” rating for a 1200mAh battery is 1.2A,
    and that battery’s C/10 current value is (1.2A / 10) can be used,
    such as a power resistor or set of light bulbs as long as the discharge current doesn’t
    exceed the C/10 value and cause an overheating condition.
    For LiPo packs rated at 7.4V and 11.1V , connect a 150 ohm resistor with a power rating
    of 2 watts (commonly found at Radio Shack)to the pack’s positive and negative terminals
    to safely discharge connecting it to an ESC/ motor system and allowing the motor to run
    indefinitely until no power remains to further cause the system to function.
    4. Discharge the battery until its voltage reaches 1.0V per cell or
    lower. For resistive load type discharges, discharge the battery for up to 24 hours.
    5. Submerse the battery into bucket or tub of salt water. This container should have a lid,
    but it should not need to be air-tight. Prepare a plastic container (do not use metal) of cold
    water. And mix in 1/2 cup of salt per gallon of water. Drop the battery into the salt water.
    Allow the battery to remain in the tub of salt water for at least 2 weeks.
    6. Remove the LiPo battery from the salt water, wrap it in newspaper or paper towels and
    place it in the normal trash. They are landfill safe.
  9. Rod

    Rod New Member

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    YES EXTREMELY BAD. These are lithium polymer batteries nowadays NOT Lithium-ion and not NiCd or Ni-Mh. Once you go below 20% you've killed off the performance of the battery and how many cycles it will charge for. This is why you this is always happening because now your LiPo battery is not holding the charge and you find yourself running it to 10% every other day. It's from that very first time you went below 20%.
  10. Rod

    Rod New Member

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    This is more than you will ever need to know about Lithium Polymer batteries and is written for flight batteries but it is the SAME technology they are using in smartphones, tablets, and laptops. (The same principles apply) (it even mentions the 20% level towards the bottom.) Following these principles has saved me money on not having to replace the hundreds of LiPo batteries I own.

    WARNING: Please read before charging or using your new battery V1.07
    IMPORTANT SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS AND WARNINGS
    • You must read these safety instructions and warnings before using or charging your batteries.
    • Lithium Polymer batteries are volatile . Failure to read and follow these instructions may result in fire, personal injury and damage to
    property if charged or used improperly.
    • Thunder Power, its distributors and retailers assume no liability for fai lures to comply with these warnings and safety guidelines.
    • By purchasing this battery, the buyer assumes all risks associated with this product. If you do not agree with these conditions,
    please return the battery immediately before use.
    General Guidelines and Warnings
    1) Thunder Power batteries are NOT charged as you receive them. They contain approximately 50% of a full charge.
    2) Use Lithium Polymer specific chargers only. Do not use a NiCd or NiMh charger - Failure to do so may cause a fire, which
    may result in personal injury and property damage.
    3) Never charge batteries unattended. When charging LiPo batteries you should always remain in constant observation to monitor
    the charging process and react to potential problems that may occur.
    4) Some LiPo chargers on the market may have technica l deficiencies that may cause them to charge LiPo batteries incorrectly. It is
    solely the responsibility of the user to assure that the charger used works properly. Thunder Power only recommends chargers
    and balancers made by Thunder Power, other brands may work but are out of Thunder Power’s control.
    5) If at any time you witness a battery starting to balloon or swell up, discontinue the charging process immediately. Disconnect
    the battery and place it in a safe observation area for approximately 15 minutes. Continuing to charge a battery that has begun
    to swell will result in fire.
    6) Battery observation should occur in a safe area outside of any building or vehicle and away from any combustible material. The
    middle of a cement driveway is a good example of a safe observation area .
    7) Shorts can cause fires! If you accidentally short the wires, the battery must be placed in a safe area for observation for
    approximately 15 minutes. Additionally, be mindful of the burn danger that may occur due to a short across jewelry (such as
    rings on your fingers).
    8) Chemical reactions are not instantaneous, a battery that has been shorted may not ignite for 10 minutes.
    9) All crash batteries, even if not deformed, should be placed in a safe area for observation for at least 15 minutes
    10) If for any reason you need to cut the terminal wires, cut each wire separately, ensuring the wires do not become shorted across
    the cutting tool.
    11) When soldering connectors, first place a short length of heat shrink tubing over each wire. Then remove the insulating tape from
    the red wire and strip a short length of the insulation off, exposing the conductor approximately ¼”. Tin the exposed wire as well
    as the connector terminals. Place the wire in contact with th e positive connector terminal and re -flow the solder of both together.
    Once cool, slide the heat shrink tubing down to cover the joint and shrink. Repeat the process for the black wire. If you
    accidentally short the battery wires, place the battery in a sa fe area and observe it for approximately 15 minutes.
    12) Never store or charge a battery pack inside your car if the internal temperature will exceed 120 degrees
    Before the First Charge
    1) Make a visual inspection of the pack. Checking for any damaged leads, connectors, broken/cracked shrink covering, puffiness or
    other irregularities.
    2) Before installing or changing the connector, check the voltage of the pack using a digital voltmeter (not your charger). All new
    packs ship at approximately 3.80V to 3.9V per cell.
    For example: A 2S pack should read approximately 7.60V to 7.8V, A 3S pack should read approximately 11.40V to 11.7V.
    3) If any damage to the pack or leads is found, or the voltage is significantly less for your pack than specified above, do not attempt
    to charge or fly the pack; contact Thunder Power directly as soon as possible.
    Charging Process
    1) Never charge batteries unattended.
    2) Charge in an isolated area, away from flammable materials.
    3) Let the battery cool down to ambient temperature before charging.
    4) Do not charge battery packs in series except as outlined in step 8. Charge each battery pack individually. Overcharging of one
    or the other battery may occur resulting in fire. ***In order to discharge packs in series, the charged voltage of each
    cell in both packs must be within 0.01V***
    5) When selecting the cell count or voltage for charging purposes, select the cell count and voltage as it appears on the battery
    label. Selecting a cell count or voltage other than the one printed on the lab el may result in overcharging and fire. As a safety
    precaution, please confirm that the information printed on the battery is correct.
    For example: If a battery label indicates that it is a 3 cell battery (3S), its voltage should read between 11.4 and 11.7 volts. This
    battery must be charged as a 3 cell battery (peak of 12.6V).
    6) You must check the pack voltage after each flight before re-charging. Do not attempt to charge any pack if the unloaded
    individual cell voltages are less than 3.3V.
    For example: Do not charge a 2-cell pack if below 6.6V
    Do not charge a 3 cell pack if below 9.9V
    7) NORMAL CHARGING: The charge rate should not exceed 1C (one times the capacity of the battery, unless otherwise
    noted*). Higher setting may cause problems which can result in fire.
    For example: Charge a 730mAh battery at or below 0.73Amps. Charge a 5000mAh battery at or below 5Amps.
    Thunder Power packs with balancing connectors can be used with TP balancers for safer charging. For
    more information, please visit: www.thunderpowerrc.com
    *To charge at greater than 1C (no more than 3C): You must use a Thunder Power 1010C charger in
    conjunction with a Thunder Power Balancer (205 or 210) and data cable. Only ProLite 910, 1320, 2000 and
    2100 cells qualify for charging up to 3C.
    8) To charge two packs in series: The packs need to first be charged individually (using a 1010C, 210V balancer and associated
    data cable), and flown in series for a couple of cy cles. Then, having flown both packs together in series, using a good quality
    DVM, check the individual cell voltages at the balancing connector. If all the voltages are within 0.01V of each other, series
    charging should be safe. Please note that this requi res a “Y” cable be made to electrically attach the packs together in series and
    that the battery on the negative most side of this cable (the lead that goes to the negative terminal of the charger) be attached to
    “group A” of the balancer. Please see 1010C/210V instructions.
    First few Flights
    Thunder Power recommends no more than 3-5C average discharge for breaking in new packs. Also be extremely careful not to over
    discharge new packs (Packs should NEVER be over discharged at any time, but over discharging on the first flight will ruin the battery
    permanently before you are able to enjoy it. See “Caring for Battery” below).
    Storage & Transportation
    1) Store batteries at room temperature between 40 and 7 0 degrees F for best results.
    2) If storing longer than one week; batteries must be stored at 3.8V/cell to 3.9V/cell (approximately 50% charged) . This is easily
    accomplished using the Thunder Power 1010C charger.
    3) Do not expose battery packs to direct sunlight (heat) for extended periods.
    4) When transporting or temporarily storing in a vehicle, temperature range s should be greater than 20 degrees F but no more than
    150 degrees F.
    5) Storing Lipo batteries at temperatures greater than 170 degrees F for extended periods of time (more than 2 hours) may cause
    damage to battery and possible fire.
    Caring for Battery
    1) Only charge a LiPo battery with a good quality Lithium Polymer charger. A poor quality charger can be dangerous . All Thunder
    Power chargers & Balancers are of the highest quality available .
    2) Set voltage and current correctly (failure to do so can cause fire).
    3) Please check pack voltage after the first charge.
    For example; a 2 Cell battery should measure 8.4V (8.30 to 8.44), a 3 cell battery should measure 12.6V (12.45 to 12.66).
    4) Do not discharge a battery to a level below 3V per cell under load. Discharging below 3V per cell can deteriorate battery
    performance. Be sure to set your ESC for the proper cut off voltage (6.0V cut off for 2S packs, 9.0V cut off for 3S packs, etc).
    5) Use caution to avoid puncture of the battery. Puncturing a LiPo battery may cause a fire.
    Operating Temperature
    Charge: 32 to 113 degrees F
    Discharge: 32 to 140 degrees F
    1) Always allow a battery to cool down to ambient temperature before re-charging.
    2) During discharge and handling of batteries, do not exceed 160 degrees F.
    Battery Life
    Batteries that lose 20% of their capacity must be removed from service and disposed of properly.
    Discharge the battery to 3V/Cell, making sure output wires are insulated, then wrap battery in a bag for disposal.
    Product Warranty
    Product warranty is limited to original defects in material and workmanship for 90 days from the day of purchase . Warranty does
    not cover collateral damage, misuse, abuse, incorrect charging and other in appropriate use of this product .
    Thunder Power RC
    4720 West University Ave., Las Vegas, NV 89103
    Phone: (702) 228-8883 Fax: (702) 228-8885
    www.thunderpowerrc.com

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